“Soul-Searching”
Dian Dong
Interviewed on July 9th, 2023
by Anabella Lenzu
Anabella: How do you define what it is to be an artist, a dance maker in New York City? And what are your challenges to keep this balance between motherhood and art making?
Dian: I never dreamed that I could actually have a career as a professional dancer in New York City and be a mother as well. Never mind running a dance company with my husband H.T. Chen, and a Cultural Center for Chinatown, as well as raise two beautiful daughters. None of it was planned and a lot of it was truly hard work, creative work. But we made it through and we have two grown, beautiful daughters. There's a lot of crazy stories of how we got here, though.
Anabella: What was the most challenging aspect?
Dian: It was really not easy because the first time our company was invited by the Kennedy Center to perform, we were thrilled. The problem was that we had just returned from a nine-week tour from New England. Since our children were young, I took my oldest daughter out of second grade with permission from the teacher, and she brought homework. She did homework in the airport, in the hotel room, and backstage. When we returned after nine weeks, the principal said not to go to the office because they would hand me a summons for child abuse - for denying my child an education! I explained that she kept up with all the homework, but the school secretary wanted to give me the summons. They threatened to take my children away.
Two months later our company was to perform at the Kennedy Center. I left the children home with a babysitter. My brother in NJ was to relieve the babysitter who couldn’t stay the entire time. However, a major snowstorm hit New York City. The babysitter had to leave, and my brother couldn't get in. So you see, it was considered child abuse to bring my children on tour. However, when I left my 2-year-old and a 7-year-old in the apartment alone all weekend with no supervision, it wasn't considered child abuse? Fortunately, my brother was finally able to make it into NYC and care for my children until I returned!
We went through all kinds of situations to raise our children, and thankfully, they made it through and are healthy, happy, and productive citizens, but it wasn't easy.
Anabella: Wow! That's an example of many choices that you have to make. Sometimes people don't understand all the difficulties sacrifices and stress parents go through, especially if you don't have children. I want to talk about the female body: Can you tell me about how your body changed, from before becoming a mom and after? Also, how was your relationship with your own body as a dancer?
Dian: Essentially, once you become a mom, you put yourself on hold and say, "The baby comes first; no matter what. You're going to be there." I don't know how I managed. As a working artist with young children, I couldn't afford regular dance classes. The Corvinos were very generous to working artists and I was able to stay in shape. Thanks to the work of Lulu Sweigard, who taught Ideokinesis, myself as well as generations of dancers had long and injury-free careers. I didn't understand how valuable it was while at Juilliard; we all just did it because it was required - but thank goodness for that because it saved my career. Also, when you have few resources, you have to become creative. We're taught as creatives to be resourceful, to make something out of nothing. I remember my children's classmates coming to our studio after school to do homework and play. I'd just give them paper, scratch paper, and tell them to play make-believe. The parents would pick them up after work, and they would say, "Oh, what did you do?" They'd respond, "Oh we had the best time." The parents would ask, "What did you do?" Well, we had no toys. And the parents would look at me like, "What kind of host are you? No toys!" I said, "They made things, they played, they had a wonderful time. What's wrong with that?" They did their homework; there was no fighting. They didn't even use language; they were just gesturing and creating this whole world. So I feel like that was the most wholesome thing I could have done. Thank goodness they didn't have lots of toys and gadgets because that's a real problem.
Anabella: Let’s talk about legacy and cultural heritage: How do you pass your traditions and H.T traditions to your daughters?
Dian: Well, I'm fifth-generation American-born; my great-great-grandfather came here in the 1860s before the Exclusion Act, and my late husband, HT, was born in Shanghai, raised in Taiwan, and arrived here as an immigrant, a first-generation immigrant, working as a delivery boy on Wall Street just so that he could afford classes at the Martha Graham School. For both of us, we felt like we were not quite ‘American’. My father served in World War II in the US Air Force, and only afterward, Chinese who served were considered US citizens. When HT arrived in New York in the early 1970s, he was shocked to learn that African Americans had only won the right to vote in the mid-60s, I think. It's just incredible - how could this be the land of democracy, you know? But yeah, it was eye-opening. Also, we were blessed to have the refuge and guidance of Ellen Stewart at La MaMa Theatre. She had the most international group of artists but was punished by the NEA. They took away her funding, saying she wasn't supporting Americans. Just around the corner, Joe’s Pub of The Public Theater would get lots of funding, but Ellen Stewart wouldn't get a dime even though she was introducing international artists to Americans - which had an immense impact on the field. So there was a lot of injustice. But we all stayed together, and we actually named our younger daughter after Ellen Stewart. Her name is Evelyn. We named our first daughter after Anna Sokolow because we admired Anna so much and worked with her, dancing in her company for many years. So yeah, we have one daughter whose middle name is Anna and the other daughter named after Ellen Stewart. These pioneering women, Ellen Stewart and Anna Sokolow, went through a lot, and we thought, you know, if they could go through that, we certainly can go through it.
Anabella: This is wonderful! Thinking about the role of females in the dance community…what does it mean for you to be a “good” artist?
Dian: Does that mean you have to be famous? Do you have to leap over tall buildings? I think you have to calm down and really find your authentic voice. You have to do a lot of soul-searching. Why are you doing this? To show off, to, I don't know. What are you doing? When I got out of Juilliard, I really had no idea what we would do. My husband, HT Chen, was fascinated by Chinese Americans. I thought, well, he came from a high-class family in China. Why would he want to pay attention to these immigrants? He thought their lives were beautiful; their integrity of working hard and creating community. So he made dances about sewing factory garment workers, restaurant workers, and laborers. It was amazing, and even the Chinese people were like - can't you show us as high class? He said no, this is beautiful. Thank God he did those pieces because nobody else thought it was really important. His work was like social justice - story-telling through movement. His work captured the actual lives of working-class people and the building of America. We did research, going to California to Angel Island, to understand the immigration center. We talked to seniors and elders in community centers to really understand the experiences they went through. H.T. was brave to do that which was considered ‘minor’ to recognize the importance of Chinatowns in the USA. For me, whose family actually lived these experiences for many generations, it was my entry into my past that I never had the courage or imagination to explore. It was an amazing journey, I think. So that's why we're sharing these works with so many schools. For years, we've built education programs, most recently for the Dance Education Lab (DEL), the Board of Education’s curriculum called "Into the Heart of Chinatown, Hidden Voices." But for many years, we had been presenting a program that addresses Chinese American history and the building of America. This season, we're reaching out to colleges in Tennessee, Mississippi, and New Jersey, not just New York State.
Anabella: As a couple, how do you manage to have time for yourselves, make art and have kids?
Dian: I don't even know. We worked together side by side for 47 years. Before the 2020 fire at 70 Mulberry Street, we were there seven days a week, sometimes doing 70 - 90-hour work weeks. That's a long time. And our children were too. We used to have a playpen in the office. When the girls got older, they would do homework in the hallways and stay late if we had an evening event. This was our second home, and we were there all weekend long running the classes and staying late afterward to run the shows. So we all worked side by side. It never dawned on us that it was unusual. You know, when you see all the family grocery stores and restaurants and, you know, the whole family's there, the kids come home after school, and they're working, so it was just natural that we work together. So it was very organic.
Anabella: How to define what is to be a good mother?
Dian: It's something that you have instinctively, and I never knew that I didn't. You didn't go to college to learn about how to be a good mom, and you just want to make sure that they're always curious and adventurous but not overly adventurous. I mean, you want to always explain things to them. My own mother used to say, "Don't use baby talk to the kids. They're real people; they want to know, so just talk to them." So basically, they were included in all of our productions as well because sometimes we didn't know what to do with them backstage. After school, they'd be there in the studios, and maybe after they finished homework, they had nothing to do. We're still rehearsing. We're like, "Okay, well, you know, the dancers just did a big scene, but how would they go into another one, and have time for their costume change? So as a transition, we would choreograph a family scene with children (our daughters) so that the company had time to change and make a crossover. Our girls performed in many of our pieces and were the ‘transition’ between the company sections. I think that including them in the work made them understand the responsibility and the discipline and that life doesn't just revolve around them. There's a bigger story, and they're part of it, and they helped us tell the story. It’s like when you go to one theatre, and the stage is much wider than you had expected, or you get to the next one, and it's deeper, and you have to keep adjusting. So this is the way life is. You had to go with the flow.
Anabella: Talk about legacy? What are the things that you pass along to these generations?
Dian: I think my mother's stories of hardship were influential because of her family’s hardships. Her father was the very first Chinese lawyer in Canada but wasn't allowed to practice due to his Chinese heritage. However, he worked for a law firm, and they sent him across the country to help Chinese families, and they were doing very well. They had five children, and then at 38, he died of spinal meningitis. My grandmother was widowed at the age of 28 with five children. The youngest was two months old, and the oldest was 11. Then, the following year, the Great Depression happened. The stories my mom told us about her hardship and growing up made all of us, my four brothers and me, very motivated. If my mother could go through this and be joyous and creative, then we could too. Both of my parents were visual artists and therefore didn’t have the financial means to spoil their children. They raised five children with love and creativity. It was truly inspiring. I feel like it was automatically ingrained in each of us to work hard and be resilient. My younger daughter really internalized this. She heard these stories over and over again and has mentioned that they made her want to go out and work hard.
Anabella: Are your two daughters artists as well?
Dian: Yes, my oldest daughter and my younger daughter are both involved in dance. My oldest daughter is highly organized, hardworking, and has always played administrative, management, and technical roles in the company. She handles computers, does marketing, and works with us in the office. Additionally, she performs in educational shows. On the other hand, my younger daughter is a performer. Currently, she serves as one of the rehearsal directors at Sleep No More and has had a professional dance career. So, both of them have found their paths in the field of dance.
Anabella: Anything else that you want to share?
Dian: Absolutely - Martha Hill's name echoes through the history of American dance as a foundational figure, often regarded as the mother of American Dance. Her pivotal role in establishing institutions like the American Dance Festival, Bennington College Dance program, NYU Dance program, and Juilliard's Dance Division has had a profound impact on the field. Martha Hill was not just an educator; she was a dynamic force, a mover, and a shaker, spearheading various projects and standing at the forefront of the dance scene. The humorous story is that she insisted that I be H.T. translator because I was the only Chinese student in the Dance Dept and HT was the 1st Chinese male student at the Juilliard Dance Division. This was ironic and quite challenging because we spoke different dialects. In order to help him, we had to spend hours together after classes - which eventually led us to become a couple. Martha Hill’s collaborative spirit reflects the incredible leadership of women and individuals in the dance world. These artists weren't just fulfilling job roles; they were visionaries who transformed lives and shaped the entire dance profession. Their foresight, dedication, and trailblazing efforts continue to resonate, leaving an enduring legacy that enriches the world of dance. Their contributions opened doors and inspired future generations, making them true pillars of the dance community.
Anabella: Thank you so much Dian for your time. It was a pleasure talking to you.I think this interview will strengthen and support the community.
Dian: Thank you, Anabella!
A graduate of The Juilliard School, Dian Dong studied with Shirley Ubell, Vladimir Doukodovsky, Alfredo Corvino and Doris Rudko. She has worked with Anna Sokolow’s Players’ Project, Kathryn Posin, Janet Soares, Lance Westergard, Kazuko Hirabayashi, Lincoln Center Institute, the ADF 25th Anniversary Repertory Co, Walter Nicks, and the national tour of The King & I. She has taught at NYU School of Ed., Montclair State College, the Center for Modern Dance Ed. and Chen Dance Center. Ms. Dong organizes and designs the education programs for H.T. Chen & Dancers homebased and residency programs. She has participated in the Kennedy Center’s Capacity Building Program led by Michael Kaiser, and attended the Executive Program for Non-Profit Leaders - Arts at Stanford Graduate Business School. She and H.T. Chen are the proud recipients of the 2012 Mid-Career Award from the Martha Hill Dance Fund. https://chendancecenter.org
Originally from Argentina, Anabella Lenzu is a dancer, choreographer, scholar & educator with over 30 years of experience working in Argentina, Chile, Italy, and the USA. Lenzu directs her own company, Anabella Lenzu/DanceDrama (ALDD), which since 2006 has presented 400 performances, created 15 choreographic works, and performed at 100 venues, presenting thought-provoking and historically conscious dance-theater in NYC. As a choreographer, she has been commissioned all over the world for opera, TV programs, theatre productions, and by many dance companies. She has produced and directed several award-winning short dance films and screened her work in over 200 festivals both nationally and internationally.