“a wonderful feeling of sisterhood”
Dyane Harvey-Salaam
INTERVIEWED ON JULY 10TH, 2023
BY ANABELLA LENZU
Anabella: How do you balance all the different roles as a mother, choreographer, performer, and mentor?
Dyane: I have no idea. First of all, as we both were saying, we have all these plans and systems to manage our lives, families, choreography, and roles. Eventually, at some point, you start to realize that they're all braiding together whether or not you want them to. Now, my daughter is close to 40 and has two daughters, so I'm a grandmother. I don't get enough chances to see them as they live out of state, but when I do my heart sings. There's just so much joy in being in the presence of my son-in-law and daughter, and their little family. How do you balance all of this? Well, once you set up your system of care, your mind can be at peace. Then, you can shift your focus to the care you need to give yourself, however you define that. Whether that's: “I’m going to go take a class,” “I'm going to go do a Pilates session,” or “I'm not going to do either. I'm going to sit in a sauna. I'm going to journal. I'm just going to sit and watch some really stupid TV programs, or I'm going to rehearsal.” That is a form of care because you're preparing for something. Sometimes, that caregiving of that child or those children means they come to rehearsal with you, which was how it worked with Khisekh, our daughter. She was at rehearsals from age 2. She knew exactly how to behave. At no point would you see her running across the room, very early on, she knew what rehearsal was. She attended performances, even performing with Forces of Nature. When I danced with Joan Miller, she hung out with me at her rehearsals, I recall her climbing all over the ballet barre. She may have been 6 or 8 then, and I was performing with both Forces of Nature and Joan Miller and had begun to teach. I wasn't choreographing because it was all just too much unless it was for one of the schools or a specific project. But I think most mothers will agree that you set the child up first and then tend to your needs as a performer. I was also blessed because my in-laws lived in the same building. I had a wonderful support system, with my In-laws living in the same building as we did. They looked forward to serving as caregivers for our daughter.
Anabella: How do you also balance your relationship with your husband, who is also an artist (Abdel R. Salaam –. Executive Artistic Director and Choreographer of the Forces of Nature Dance Theatre)? How do you manage that, and how long have you been married?
Dyane: Almost 40 years. We manage because we both love dance, and we both love art and culture. I call that our blood. Our blood is our culture. We also understand how important it is for us to be able to live our deepest passions. And we support that part of who we are as individuals. We know the value of culture for our various communities. How it is healing for our audiences, and how it is healing for us. However, there have been some trying times. Like all marriages, relationships, and partnerships, it works as long as you communicate openly and honestly. In our 30s, I mistakenly had the idea of the ideal family from TV shows like “The Cosby Show,” but a relationship is what you make it. Emulating others, without a deep understanding of the life behind the scenes, can lead to disappointments. again the life you make with those in your immediate circle is what you make. I did experience a sense of guilt if we were in a particularly busy period and so when Khi was old enough to appreciate a special “date” we’d have one. On certain Fridays, my daughter and I would enjoy a mother-daughter dinner. She ordered scallion pancakes and miso soup which she loved! I taught her how to use chopsticks and I was in heaven! Even now, we talk about how we need some mother-daughter time. It was a balancing act, building the company at the same time raising our daughter; talk about a challenge….Of course, I had the strongest need and urge to be with her I mean, when she was born, I felt all the wonder of: “My God, this is what we made, we made this being, look at this being”. What a sense of amazement!
At that point, we were a small company, about 10 or 12 people and musicians. Abdel managed all of that while working full-time as a leadership trainer with the Manhattan Valley Youth program. I was with her for the first six months, and then Eleo Pomare asked me to tour Italy on a summer Dance Mobile. But, how do I make sense and reckon with my inner turmoil? I had regained my stride after about nine months and decided to leave my daughter for two weeks, with the grandmothers. I was very concerned that she wouldn’t remember me when I returned. Abdel made sure she saw him and spent time with her every day. But I wasn't there. When the Pomare Company came back, they met us at the airport. She wasn't walking yet, but when Abdel carried her to me, and she extended her arms, what a relief I realized that we would be okay.
Anabella: What encompasses being a mother and an artist?
Dyane: What is the role of a mother? I made a bunch of mistakes. I thought they were the right choices. But as I look back, I realize they weren’t. I acknowledge them and know that I cannot go back and change them. So, I allow myself the grace of knowing, and learning from them. I now know the role of a mother is to serve.
An artist. Of course, I hesitate to use the word “artist” because everybody defines it differently. Up until maybe ten years ago, I didn't consider myself an artist. I felt like I couldn't wear that title. People watching me dance would say, “No, you are an artist.” But I didn’t want to claim it. There’s a “boxed-in” responsibility in that term. Being an artist to me means that you have to live a certain fixed life. Do artists LIVE their art or can they -do they separate their deep inner being from what they do?
Anabella: How do you listen to your needs as a mother and artist?
Dyane: So this is funny. When I found out I was pregnant, it was maybe two months after getting married. So I pulled together all of my friends, especially the mother performers in my circle, and I tearfully said to them, “Oh God, I'm pregnant. What am I going to do? Who am I?” And they looked at each other, then at me, and said, “Oh please, you will be fine. Look at us. You will figure it out. When you can't figure it out, call one of us, and we will advise you. However, this is a path that you must commit to. You have chosen this path because you chose not to abort. Therefore, you'll follow this through like you do when you take a ballet or Horton class. You need to follow through. That's who you are; you follow through.” They asked me if I was afraid of the discomfort: “What are you afraid of? Are you afraid of how your body's going to change?” They essentially told me to get over it because the discomfort and changes don't last forever. I think that that was one of the first lessons that I remember. Thinking back, I realize having a child wasn't a sacrifice but an investment, our longevity investment. At this point, me being 70-something, she is my legacy. She is my longevity. She's not in the arts at all right now. She's raising these two wild little women, which is ART, it is plenty for now, and I know she also has her own dreams. I'm also thinking about one of the dancers in our company. Right now, we have four dancers who are mothers in the company and one who is a father of two. The newest mother has had to be careful with her newborn son because of COVID-19; she hasn’t brought him around yet. The other three bring their children to rehearsal when necessary, which is absolutely fine, as long as they follow studio etiquette.
Anabella: Talking female lineage. How do you define this, and how do you pass certain things on to the next females?
Dyane: In our company, there is a young woman who had to have a surgical procedure, otherwise, it could have developed into a life-threatening situation. I watched her, and kept seeing this, this deep, deep sadness. Finally, I said, “Okay, once you’ve had your surgery, I would like to have a women's gathering, feel free to invite your closest friends. We’ll do it on the roof (of the building we live in).” I invited my friends; one is a psychologist, a Yoruba priestess and the other is an actress. They’re my close buddies and we just sat around and talked, sharing thoughts, prayers, stories with laughter and tears. I offered a ceremony that was designed to cleanse the atmosphere and the planet, also deeply cleansing for all of us. There was a wonderful feeling of sisterhood and bonding
Anabella: This is why it's so special to talk to you, Dyane because you cultivate this sisterhood. And I see it, and I feel it. I interviewed some moms who feel very lonely. They don't know how to ask for help. That's why this project was born. I was seeing these young women, immigrants especially, here in this country with no resources and other dancers and choreographers that they need to find this kind of sisterhood.
Dyane: Yeah, that's the thing. You have to humble yourself with the fact that yes, you need help, companionship, or whatever it is, and ask for it. Ask, and you shall receive.
Anabella: But also, I feel that in the dance community, we help each other; that's part of knowing how to work in a team. That's very special. Perhaps in another field, that would be different. But for us, dance is our body. This acceptance is like, “OK, I'm scared my body will change.”
Dyane: It's going to be a lot, but a lot of stuff will happen.
Anabella: Do you imagine what your life would look like not being a mother? I remember being nine years old. This is my story in Argentina. I auditioned for this big dance school that followed the Russian model. I got into this very hard to get into school. And then I cried. When my mom picked me up, I was crying like a baby. And my mom said, “But why are you crying? You're not happy that you're going to study dance?” And I was, but I thought pursuing dance meant I couldn’t become a mom. I told her, “How am I going to take care of my kids if I want to devote my life to dance?” There was another dance teacher; she had kids and heard this conversation. She came over and said: “No, listen, I have two kids.” Thinking now, I don't know where I got those ideas.
Dyane: I think the ballet world has begun to shift now because of the introduction of people of other cultures. But I think the role of the dancer, the image of the dancer as a solitary figure, doesn’t let you get a sense of where they came from. You never get a sense of what they're thinking about in terms of who they are in the world beyond the dance world. I think that young dancers see that, and many decide, “No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do the family. I'm not going to do the children thing”. But, I think we understand the value of procreation in the modern dance world and the West African and African Diaspora dance communities. When it happens, it happens, and you carry on enriched; you do your thing. I think I was made aware of this through Shawneequa Baker-Scott. A brilliant dancer who worked with Donald McKayle, Eleo Pomare, Olatunji, and Dinizulu. She was well-versed in the dances of the African Diaspora and trained in the Western aesthetic. She had feet, legs, attitude, that whole thing, and she had a daughter ten years younger than I when we first met during my early Pomare days. She was one of my dance mentors. Seeing how she dealt with her daughter was important to me. There was another Pomare dancer named Shirley Rushing, who had a son. The son would come to rehearsal every now and then, and we all remarked how well-behaved he was during rehearsal, with his toys, little trucks, and things. Watching Eleo interact with these young people was inspirational, and life-affirming.
And yet I knew at 30 years old that “my clock” was ticking. There was a man in my life who wanted to have a family and a dance company. So I decided to throw the dice and see what happened. We could do both, though there were bumps along the road. But I'm grateful that my daughter and grandchildren are in our lives. And now that I'm talking them up, they'll probably call me today. We get to continue to grow with the children in our lives. We stay current. We stay up to date.
Anabella: Dyane, you are a treasure. I'm so happy to know you!
Dyane: I feel it, I receive it and I send it back to you.
Dyane Harvey-Salaam is an accomplished performing artist, BESSIE award nominee (2019) and winner (2017), dance educator, choreographer, certified Pilates instructor, and board member of the American Dance Guild. She has performed as a principal soloist with many recognized dance companies and is a founding member and assistant to director Abdel R. Salaam, of The Forces of Nature Dance Theatre Company. She has appeared nationally and internationally with concert dance companies including the Eleo Pomare Dance Company, Joan Miller’s Dance Players, Chuck Davis Dance Company, Walter Nicks Dance Company, Otis Sallid’s New Art Ensemble, George Faison’s Universal Dance Experience, Dance Brazil, and The Repertory Dance Theatre of Trinidad and Tobago. Commercial appearances include The Wiz (Broadway and original film), Timbuktu!, Spell #7, Your Arms Too Short to Box With God (Paris, France Company), Ailey Celebrates Ellington (CBS Special), Free To Dance (PBS Special). Most recently she served as a guest artist in Sydnie L. Mosely’s Purple A Ritual In 9 Spells, produced at Lincoln Center. Her choreography for Black Theatre companies has earned her AUDELCO Awards for Oya the Dance Drama, and Great Men of Gospel, and The United Solo and Broadway Berkshire Awards for Becoming Othello a Black Girl’s Journey.
Other awards include A.I.R. Living Legends Award from Miami Dade Community College, the Distinguished Woman Award from the Harlem Arts Alliance, and the Harlem Chamber of Commerce. Aspects of her life have been recorded for the Lincoln Center Performing Arts Library Jerome Robbins Dance Division, Oral History Project, and she participated in The Dance Historian Is In, a video presentation in which she highlighted major career achievements. Her published article, “Making Movement as an Act of Listening, Riding with the Muse” was part of the CLAJ Special Edition dedicated to the legacy of collaborator, Ntozake Shange. An educator who continues to teach and design courses at both Princeton and Hofstra Universities, where she shares her philosophy about the dance of life itself.
Originally from Argentina, Anabella Lenzu is a dancer, choreographer, scholar & educator with over 30 years of experience working in Argentina, Chile, Italy, and the USA. Lenzu directs her own company, Anabella Lenzu/DanceDrama (ALDD), which since 2006 has presented 400 performances, created 15 choreographic works, and performed at 100 venues, presenting thought-provoking and historically conscious dance-theater in NYC. As a choreographer, she has been commissioned all over the world for opera, TV programs, theatre productions, and by many dance companies. She has produced and directed several award-winning short dance films and screened her work in over 200 festivals both nationally and internationally.