“Family first — always. Find that mantra.“
Charmaine Warren
Interviewed on December 19th, 2022
by Anabella Lenzu
Anabella: Thank you, Charmaine. Tell me your history as a mom.
Charmaine: I have one daughter who graduated from Boston Conservatory as a Dance Major. She is still living in Boston and in the field.
Anabella: I have two kids: a son who is fourteen and a daughter who is nine years old. Where are you from originally?
Charmaine: I'm Jamaican. I'm a performer, presenter, mother, wife, dancer, curator, writer, and instructor. I'm the Founder and Artistic Director of Black Dance Stories, which is a YouTube series that began during the top of the pandemic. I'm also the Founder and Artistic Director of Dance on the Lawn, a festival in Montclair, New Jersey, that began in 2014. We proudly give artistic support to emerging New Jersey choreographers, and we have supported seven of them over the years.
I’m also the producer of Dance Africa at BAM (Brooklyn Academy of Music), and I'm in the programming department at BAM. I have been a part of Harlem Stage co-curator. I write for the Amsterdam News, Dance Magazine, and sometimes the New York Times. I also have my own blog. I try my best to let the dance community know about upcoming art and upcoming performances. I perform with Jasmine Hearn, and I aim to keep dancing on stage.
Anabella: What is your secret? How are you doing it all?
Charmaine: I continue to do exactly what I started out doing, which was to become a performer before I was a mom and a wife. I was first a performer, then I became a mother, and then a wife, but I've been with my partner, my husband, for many years. So you do what you do, and that's your happy place. That's the answer. You ask yourself, what is my happy place? Then you find out where it lands. As one gets older, one realizes the things that keep you happy, so it's not so much about how do I manage to do all the things. You find a place for all the things, but happiness comes first. As I say to a lot of people, put your mask on first, then you can do the other things. Me first and then the other things, which I do happily. I love the things that I wake up to each day, but I make time for myself, and then I'm able to leave space for the other things that support my day, my life, my happiness, and my family.
Anabella: How do you feel about your role as an immigrant, both as an artist and as a mother in the United States? How do you transfer this experience of being an immigrant and show this to your daughter?
Charmaine: Jamaica is all over our house. We are of Black skin and we are all Africans, so that does not bring up conflict. Jamaica is a part of everything we do. We are African, and our doctor knows that. All our doctors are African descendants, so it's part of who we are in the first place. From the beginning, we've always traveled to Jamaica with a Black American husband and a Black American daughter, so it's purposely part of our daily lives, it just is.
Anabella: How do you feel as an immigrant in the United States?
Charmaine: How do I feel? I've been here since I was 12, and I'm 61 now. I've been here most of my life. Jamaica is all over our lives: my brothers, my sisters, my mother, who is back in Jamaica, and my father, who has passed away. Jamaica has always been here, even though I'm living in a cold place. It’s part of the food, what's hanging on the walls, and the music we listen to, so Jamaica is always a part of my life…our lives.
Anabella: How do you pass down your love for dance to your daughter?
Charmaine: I didn’t discourage or encourage dance in her world. She found it, so I supported her by driving her to classes and taking her to performances, but that was not me saying you must dance. I wasn't the enforcer, but I did have a little bit more knowledge than some of the other mothers and parents. In that way, I supported it a little bit more, but I tried not to be a helicopter mom, so she's in the field because of her own love for dance.
Anabella: How do you define what is to be a ‘good mother,” and how would you define what is to be a “good artist”?
Charmaine: I feel no one knows. Once the baby comes out of you, the doctors give it to you, but there aren't any books that actually prepare you. There are some books that say this is what you do, but you find out every day how to be –– and I don't know if it's a “good mother” –– but a mother. Take all of those adjectives away. It's how you sustain motherhood. This is your child. You do the best you can, and we learn every day from them. I also learned from my mother because my mother had 9 of us, and now she's a great and great-great-grandmother. I also talked to my sisters and my brothers and family, but I don't know the definition of “good mother.” I only know that every day I just keep trying.
Anabella: As an immigrant, I always struggle for support. My family's around the corner with the phone, but it’s not the same thing as when your family is all together in the same space. How did you do that? It takes a lot of effort to keep connected with family if you’re far away in another country or even if they’re close in the United States.
Charmaine: Maybe we're lucky. My brother calls on WhatsApp because my mom is in a nursing home, and he calls on video, and we talk. There are many of us, and we stay connected. Most of us live in the Northeast, so we get to see each other. One of my nieces lives 15 minutes walking. My brothers and sisters are close by, so I don't feel a lack of family togetherness. Would I like to be in Jamaica when it's cold here? Yes, absolutely, but we are together, and we're lucky. It was hard, of course, during the pandemic when we were virtual, but we’re lucky.
Anabella: And the second part, the “good artist,” how do you define that?
Charmaine: I don't think I have a definition for that either. I've been called a mentor. I show up because if we don't do it for ourselves, no one will do it for us. I show up, so if that means “good artists,” then okay. I show up for most especially Black artists, young Black artists. I feel it in my heart that I, too, am supported. For example, the members of Skeleton Architecture stay in touch as much as we can. Good artists just show up, wake up, keep the love going, and do the thing.
We're always busy, but we’re organized, and we find time to do the things that we know mean so much to us. I'm doing so many things, but we organize. I'm glad that I got the physical and administrative training to do the things that I want to do, and I put them first. Then as I grow older and have a family and partners, those also mean so much because I come home. At the end of the day, I leave the stage and come home, so we keep happy.
Anabella: Well, it's hard, like the two buildings. You’re building your career, but you're also building your family. It's a constant balance between these two things. Sometimes people talk about guilt because of this. I hear it in the interviews when they say the moment they’re succeeding in their career, the house is a disaster, or they don’t know what’s happening with their kids, and vice versa. How do you feel about juggling these two things?
Charmaine: Family first — always. Find that mantra. As you get older, things become clearer. I remember getting up early to have time to myself. I did my yoga practice every morning, and I started my yoga practice at 5:30 AM, because everyone else was still asleep. Then as they grow older, they don't need you as much, so you don't have to wake up that early. Put your mask on first, then put the other masks on, and you will feel the reward of all the things. You will get the reward for all the things.
Anabella: What does it mean for you to be a female in the world, and what is your role?
Charmaine: Oh, I do what I do. I welcome all of the people who do what they do as well. I think that's my answer. Action, support, and, please, no hate. Make room for others. I said this before, if we don't support each other, who will? So, yes, support Jamaicans. Yes, support black artists. Yes, support female artists. Yes, listen to the voices. Yes, support each other. We must all listen, and it’s hard because I'm older, so people want to hear my voice, but I still have to listen. We all have to listen. As you get older, people want to hear you more, but listen.
Anabella: Do you have any other notes about motherhood? Do you have advice for the younger generations that are thinking about having these two constructions going on at the same time?
Charmaine: I think they're teaching us for sure. The younger mothers are teaching us. I was lucky, again, in that I am part of a culture that encouraged and supported motherhood in the dance community. I do remember teaching at Howard University. My daughter was 10 days old, and I was in class. She was nursing on my breast, and I was saying “plié” while breastfeeding. Somewhere outside of my immediate community, I was supposed to go to a meeting, I can't remember exactly, but they said, “No, don't bring the baby here,” Joan Finkelstein helped change her diaper during a Bessie's meeting. I was very lucky.
Anabella: So you would say the younger generation is a little bit more rebellious? A little bit more outspoken?
Charmaine: Probably, I don't know, but I never hesitated. I wanted to have a baby, and I did. I think that they are doing what they want to do and not listening to what the outside says. That wasn't a part of my world. I've always empowered myself and those around me. My mentors have always empowered me to speak my truth. I think the young ones who decide to become mothers don't question whether there is room to speak their truth or not. This is beyond motherhood, but these young folks –– they have a different voice. Is it sustainable? I don’t know. We just need to keep our eyes open for these young people and support them. Protect them, support them, mentor them because they're louder than we were, and times are different. Times are different, but I never felt unsupported or experienced any kind of complications or obstructions in the decisions I made in my career, as a performer, and as a mother. I'm lucky.
Anabella: Thank you Charmaine!
Charmaine: My pleasure.
Jamaican born, Charmaine Patricia Warren performer, historian, consultant, producer and dance writer, is the founder/artistic director for "Black Dance Stories" and "Dance on the Lawn: Montclair's Dance Festival," Producer of DanceAfrica, Artistic Associate and Programming Director at BAM. She is the Director of dance at The Wassaic Project, curated E-Moves at Harlem Stage and danced with david roussève/REALITY. Charmaine is on faculty at Empire State Colleges, a former faculty at Ailey/Fordham, Sarah Lawrence College, Hunter College and Kean University. She writes for Amsterdam News, Dance Magazine, the New York Times and has served as a panelist for Robert Battle's New Directions Choreography Lab. Charmaine holds a Ph.D. in History/Howard University, a Master’s in Dance Research/City College, and Bachelor Degrees (Dance/English)/Montclair State College. She received the 2020 Bessie "Angel" Award and a 2017 Bessie for "Outstanding Performance" as a member of Skeleton Architecture Collective.
Originally from Argentina, Anabella Lenzu is a dancer, choreographer, scholar & educator with over 30 years of experience working in Argentina, Chile, Italy, and the USA. Lenzu directs her own company, Anabella Lenzu/DanceDrama (ALDD), which since 2006 has presented 400 performances, created 15 choreographic works, and performed at 100 venues, presenting thought-provoking and historically conscious dance-theater in NYC. As a choreographer, she has been commissioned all over the world for opera, TV programs, theatre productions, and by many dance companies. She has produced and directed several award-winning short dance films and screened her work in over 200 festivals both nationally and internationally.