“these little eyes on me asking questions”
Tanya Calamoneri
Interviewed on November 11th, 2022
by Anabella Lenzu
Anabella: Thank you so much, Tanya, for making time to speak with me about what it is to be a mother and an artist. How do you juggle motherhood, artistry, and a full-time job in academia?
Tanya: I had my kids kind of late so I had some time to settle into my work as an artist. I first had a company in San Francisco in the late 90s and then had my company in NYC from 2003 to 2014. Throughout that time I worked in arts administration. I knew that I wanted to have kids, and I also knew that I probably wouldn't be able to stay as an administrator just because of the demands of that job. It’s what I did to support my dancing for many years, how I made money, got studio space, and I got to know people and networked. That was really helpful for being an artist. But it kept me out lots of nights, and that just wasn’t feasible for having kids. I was working at BAM when I got pregnant. I loved that job and I loved working at BAM. It’s an amazing institution, but I couldn't sustain that kind of gig, and be an artist AND have kids. Also having kids in New York is so expensive, as you know. I probably paid half of my yearly salary for a nanny just so I could work.
It was a conscious decision to get my Ph.D. and transition out of being an administrator to being a professor, which I thought was the best plan to support my having kids. I also really love teaching, researching, and writing, so it’s a good fit for me. But I was lucky, my parents made sure I had a well-rounded education and I had lots of options. I had moved back from San Francisco to New York to pursue my MA from NYU’s Gallatin, but I still needed a terminal degree to get a tenure-track job. I also knew that choreographing wouldn’t sustain me financially with kids, so I thought I definitely wanted to have a full-time job teaching. I considered an MFA over a PhD but I didn't dance for a big-name company. I've always danced for small, off-beat, experimental startup companies and had my own company. I knew what the market was and who was getting jobs with an MFA and it was people who danced in a big-name company. So that was one reason I decided to go the route of getting a PhD. Also I really enjoy research (my mother was a librarian) and a PhD helped me hone my critical analysis and writing skills.
I went to Temple University for my Ph.D. because their program let me pair together a focus on performance and pedagogy. My dissertation was about the creative practice of Butoh connected with Buddhist methods of self-cultivation, and my research has continued to be about methodology and teaching. Now I'm working with Butoh and virtual reality as a teaching tool, and I'm collaborating with these amazing people at Ohio State University. I will say, when I chose the PhD route, it eventually curtailed my performance work. I was able to keep my company going for quite a while, but when I got to the dissertation year, I couldn't really perform due to the research and writing load. It was impossible. Then once I got back into teaching, I was at Colgate for three years in upstate New York and I was still able to bring performers back and forth from New York while I was there, so I kept my company alive for a bit longer..
I went to Texas after that and I've basically been working exclusively on students ever since. There was a company there run by Ali Duffy, incidentally, who writes about dance and motherhood. I danced with her company for a little bit. It was a much smaller scene there. Having a full-time job as a tenure track professor has been the route for me to sustain having kids and having health insurance, while still basically living in a dance studio. And I love teaching, so that works.
Anabella: Did you obtain the Ph.D. at the same time that you were having the kids?
Tanya: Yes, I defended my dissertation when I was five months pregnant. It was not so bad. I had a little bit of morning sickness in the beginning and then I was kind of uncomfortable because I had twins. That last month, I was on bed rest and that was tricky because I was actually still working at BAM and we had companies out on tour for DanceMotion USA. I worked at BAM for one more full year before I left and went to Colgate.
Anabella: What do you consider to be a “good mother?” What do you consider to be a “good artist?”
Tanya: That's a complicated question. I make work on students now, so it's a much shorter time frame. I have maybe two 1.5-hour rehearsals a week, which is really different from when I'm working with the company and I get four 2-hour rehearsals a week. I really like to live the project, but now it's much more of a job so I have to be efficient. I have a set deadline. With my company, I made evening-length works, now I'm making things for showcases that are 8-12 minutes long. It was an adjustment for me at first to make short work. I liked to dive into a process and spend a year working on it and work with a dramaturg, a playwright, actors, performers, musicians, set designers, and costume designers. It's a condensed process now and balancing it as a parent means that I don't waste time. I used to really dig into my creative process and allow myself to marinate in the material. Now, I don't have the time, so I have to make quick decisions. In some ways, it’s kind of a good thing. It forces me to work fast and to be precise.
What is a good mom? That's a good question. For me, it's about being there. Showing up and going through their challenges with them. I don’t always have the answers but I have a lot of experience to draw from and we figure stuff out together. I'm going through the process and I'm learning every day.
Anabella: How old are your twins?
Tanya: They’re 11 now! There have been all kinds of developmental challenges along the way. One of them is dyslexic so we have extra tutoring for that. I'm a single mom, so I manage them on my own. And they're very active! My daughter sings, plays violin, and does aerial dance, and my son plays basketball, baseball, and anything else with a ball. He mostly does basketball, but he also just ran a 5k. So they're really physical, social kids, and that's been a priority for me. That's the other reason I didn’t want a K-12 teaching job, but rather a university job, because I've got the flexibility to do what I need for them. When I was working in Texas, I was able to pick them up from school most days, even if they had to come back to work with me. My job now is way more full-on, It's a bigger department and a different kind of beast. So, I have after-school care, and fortunately, there are good options. Sometimes it’s difficult to just get everyone where they need to go though.
Anabella: Scheduling, scheduling, scheduling!
Tanya: I know! I don't have a company anymore for that reason. I mean, this is my company, I am stage managing my family.
Anabella: During the pandemic, being 24/7 with my husband Todd — we're going to be celebrating 20 years of marriage — he asked me, “Can you stop choreographing our life?” I was around the house saying, “Okay, you go downstairs, you do the online thing, you vacuum.” That's what we do at home. You find parallels. You consider what it means to be a good mother or the guilt you feel when you have to prioritize something else. You ask yourself, can I be a good artist and dedicate the time, can I take time from my kids? How are you surviving with a full-time job and taking time away from your kids to work? How are you dealing with it?
Tanya: I don't feel much guilt. It’s important for me that my kids see me as working and successful, so they strive for that too in whatever makes them happy. They were so proud when I published my book, and I dedicated it to them and they were like, “Oh wow, my name's in print!” It’s more that I feel the stress of managing the schedule and the budget. If I have to be out for a performance, I need extra childcare. I'm in a really fortunate position because I have this dedicated, stable job, but it's never enough to cover everything. I get frustrated sometimes like, why am I paying to work? I know a lot of dance moms will bring their kids to the studio, but my kids are like squirrels. If there's something they can get into, they will. They have gotten used to waiting for me in my office. I got headphones and iPads for them. I'm a video parent and that’s the trade-off. Sometimes my kids are on their iPads way too much. I've had to spend more time curating the parental controls and making sure it's appropriate. I’m thankful for kids' YouTube and kids' Netflix, which is good and bad, of course.
Anabella: Tell me about how your kids see you from the outside.
Tanya: Well, I do weird performance work. These kids come to the studio and they're all like, “Whoa.” My kids like to do hip-hop dances, but when they say “We're going to do contemporary like Mommy does,” they roll around the floor and do cartwheels. Then they’re like “Okay, that's a little weird,” but the minute I go into the Butoh realm, they're just like, “That's strange, Mom.” But I think it’s important for them to see me working and expand their ideas a little.
I write about Butoh. Some of the photos for my book were of half-naked people and my kids tell me, “That's inappropriate, Mommy,” so then I catch myself. I am definitely noticing what they're noticing. My work has changed a lot too. The piece I was making when I was pregnant was dealing with femininity, female competition, and sexuality. In one scene there's one dancer just basically humping a chair. I would never do anything like that in a piece that I know my kids would come to now, so it’s interesting to see how having kids changed what I worked on.
Anabella: Tell me more about this.
Tanya: What do I want my kids exposed to and at what time? When they're older, they'll be able to handle more mature topics. I've not been as risque in my work because I knew that I would have these little eyes on me asking questions. I sometimes need them to be in the studio and I need them to come to my techs, so that is the trade off. I'm not making things that are as out there as before.
At the same time, the last piece I made on my students was dealing with a Japanese myth called Hyakki Yagyō. It's the dance of a thousand demons at the night parade. It was dark and scary, and I had an actor who had these long fingernails on and he was interacting with the audience, including them. They managed okay with this, but I don’t like to push the boundary too much with things that are inappropriate for kids.
Anabella: What is the context? Who is your audience?
Tanya: Your audience changes. I have had a lot of friends of the kids, their parents, and kids alike, come to my shows and want to see what I do. I warn them that I don’t make pretty dancey dances. It’s strange and edgy, but not too much that it will scare kids. I want them to be challenged but not turned off by my work.
When I had kids, my goals changed. Who am I making work for now? I've always made work for myself. That's my process, but I was different before I had kids. Now that I have kids, I've been spending a lot of time thinking about waste. Environmental issues have always been important to me, I grew up in the woods and have spent a lot of time hiking and camping. But when you have kids you realize just how much waste you make on a whole different level: the diapers, the laundry, sports drinks, lunch packs, clothes they grow out of every few months, and all this daily stuff that I'm always going through and throwing away. They make a lot of garbage, so the topics have changed because I've changed.
Anabella: For you, what does it mean to be female in this world and to pass this information down, especially to your daughter?
Tanya: That's a big question. I distinctly remember teaching my daughter about girl power (and there are so many books and inspirational clothing and things with girl power messages), and then my son asked me, “What about boy power?” I told him, “Well, historically boys have had a lot more power,” so he became more aware of his own role among his friends. I mean, it's kind of like with racism, kids aren’t born with that. They learn all the attitudes, they learn all the struggles. They learn the weird biases and all this crap that comes through culturally and it's the same way with gender dynamics. But it’s a balancing act that I walk every day with them because they are at roughly the same developmental stage and developing as individuals. It's always a little odd for me to answer that because my mom raised me to believe you can be whatever you want.
Anabella: I met your mom once at Studio 111 in Williamsburg, Brooklyn. I remember her!
Tanya: She's a tough cookie and she raised me to be very strong, because her parents had told her, “You can be a teacher or a secretary.” She wanted to be a journalist and she always resented those limits, so anything I wanted to do, she was like, go do it. Just go for it. I had great family support, although my parents didn't want me to go to school to be a dancer because they were concerned about me being able to support myself. I had to fight tooth and nail to get back to it after going to school for international studies and trying to work in international trade in DC. But they did support me in that transition actually. It's obvious to me that my daughter is an artist, so I've pretty much told her from the beginning, you need to go to school because I want you to have that foundation and credential under your belt, but you choose what you want to study. If you want to study dance, music, or painting, I might actually have a little bit more information to help you along that path.
I was raised with a lot of privilege for sure, being a white middle-class woman in New Jersey with so much diversity and so many opportunities. I had a really good school system, I went to see college campuses at an early age, so I just had all of that exposure and I was never told that you can't do anything because you're a woman. When I encountered that mentality in the professional world, I was just like, wait, what's wrong with you? So I've never really had that kind of attitude for my daughter.
As an artist-parent, I have made it work by building my community. I credit my San Francisco time with teaching me about putting together a chosen tribe with whoever you can cobble together to make things work. That's also what artists do and how we make community and barter. All of that has been my training as an artist. I don't know if it's female artists or just dance, because dance is always the last rung, but when I started working with actors, I was surprised. “You have an understudy?” and, “Oh, you have an assistant director that keeps your rehearsal notes? You have a production manager?” All of those things are more structured in theater and possibly because there are more men who don’t feel bad about asking for that. If anything, maybe that's how things are gendered in our profession. The dance profession in general is much more about taking it all on. I'll do everything and overburden myself and burn myself out. I’m still working on that, but yoga helps keep me in balance.
One of my mentors is Martha Eddy, and it’s incredible seeing all the things she has accomplished in her career. I learned from her about action recuperation. For example, how can I do a 20-minute yoga practice or a 20-minute Pilates practice? Or even just watch a Netflix stand-up comedy show for 20 minutes just to regenerate myself? What little things can I do to recuperate, because I need that along the way? As much as I would love to go off on a retreat for a week, I don’t have the time. Instead, I think about things that are possible to incorporate into my daily life.
I know a lot of people experience that “kids grow up too fast” and empty nest thing. I didn't have kids until I was 40, so I've gotten to do a lot of the things I wanted to, so to me this doesn't feel like such a huge sacrifice. It's more like this is the project I wanted to do, but I've also started planning what I am going to do afterward. I'm still teaching contemporary dance. It's all release technique floor work where we're doing all kinds of inversions and it's very athletic. It keeps me strong and I can sustain it right now, which is good, but I'm also working on more certifications in yoga, pilates, and somatics; things that I can sustain myself in until I’m really really old, and possibly do in a studio by the ocean somewhere.
I’ve started to put out feelers in Columbus too about making artistic work again outside of the academic setting. I’ve done a couple of small collaborations here and there… I think once I get through the tenure process I’ll give myself some space to make my own work again, with other artists interested in similar styles and themes.
Anabella: I miss you so much here! You're such an amazing person and woman. To see all that you’ve achieved!
Tanya: You’re really kind! It has its ups and downs, like everything. I read my kids stories every night and there are some books that just get me and make me cry. My kids ask, “What's wrong with you?” I tell them, “Nothing, it's a happy-sad cry.” Now they're just used to it, but I want them to see that this is a part of life too and adults can absolutely be emotional. Maybe that's a more feminine thing? We're used to allowing ourselves to be emotional and not feeling like we have to be stoic. With my son’s baseball games, I see a dad coming over and antagonize their kid saying things like, “Are you crying? Stop crying. Boys don’t cry!” I’m thinking, what the…!? So I tell my son it’s okay to cry, but you have to pick yourself back up and get back out there because your team needs you. You can be sad. I will teach you a couple of curse words. Say them under your breath, but then get back out there. That's possibly a more feminine thing too — allowing myself to be a teary mess and I don't feel that bad about it. I just keep moving.
Anabella: Thank you, it's so inspirational to talk to you! As women, we have each other and we support each other. I really believe in this project because we need to have this dialogue.
Tanya: I’m just happy you're doing this. I'm glad you're still at it. I love your work and it's great that you are always looking for the context for the field too. When I was just making work, I think I was missing the bigger dialogue. That's also partially why I took the academic route. I always want to be in that dialogue with people about what is the point of all this because I've only felt like I could affect so many people with my performance work based on who saw it. Even if I did things in public spaces and I would get random audiences, it still wasn't the level of dialogue that I wanted to have. I appreciate that you make work for the stage, but you also really make an effort to have this big conversation. Great to see you too, thank you so much!
TANYA CALAMONERI, PhD, is a dancer, choreographer, dance researcher, and dance cultural studies scholar. Her research is published in Routledge's Theatre, Dance and Performance Training Journal, Dance Chronicle, Journal of Dance Education and a chapter in the Routledge Butoh Companion as well as a chapter in the Routledge Intercultural Actor and Performer Training. She recently published a book on butoh in the United States and Mexico, titled Butoh America. Her New York-based company, Company SoGoNo, was funded by NYSCA, NYFA, AMC Live Music for Dance, and recognized by New York Innovative Theatre Awards. Previously she worked as an arts administrator; in San Francisco, she was Executive Director of Dancers' Group, and in New York, Co-Executive Director of The Field, and at Brooklyn Academy of Music as Project Manager of the State Department's cultural diplomacy program, DanceMotion USA.
ANABELLA LENZU: Originally from Argentina, Anabella Lenzu is a dancer, choreographer, scholar & educator with over 30 years of experience working in Argentina, Chile, Italy, and the USA. Lenzu directs her own company, Anabella Lenzu/DanceDrama (ALDD), which since 2006 has presented 400 performances, created 15 choreographic works, and performed at 100 venues, presenting thought-provoking and historically conscious dance-theater in NYC. As a choreographer, she has been commissioned all over the world for opera, TV programs, theatre productions, and by many dance companies. She has produced and directed several award-winning short dance films and screened her work in over 200 festivals both nationally and internationally.